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Transcript of Robert Dunlevy’s
WTM Morgantown Centre launch

Tony Miall, Sydney WTM founding member: Tell us a bit about yourself anyway.

Robert Dunlevy: My name’s Robert, 49 [at time of filming in 2022], from West Virginia here in the United States. I am an exercise physiologist. I have a master’s degree in exercise physiology. I’ve been in the health and wellness business for 25 years. And my side hobby or life’s journey has been kind of a big spiritual one. I’ve been always interested in that; I was raised in a Christian home and I was pretty consumed by spirituality. And my father married a Buddhist. And so I was exposed to that. And then hitting life and hitting some of life’s interesting challenges, I kind of dove deeper into spirituality and different aspects of it and philosophies as well. All the time I was working, and seeking, and working, and family life—and through some bad circumstances, losing a sister, I think it thrusted me deeper into a search for understanding of God and everything, and this existence, I guess.

Tony: How old were you when you lost your sister?

Robert: 30? No, I was 28, 29.

Tony: Gee, that must have been tough.

Robert: Yeah. Yeah, it was a rough go, because it really changed my perspective, of life, God, everything. And what I found, and I guess what was enlightening to me about reading this stuff about Jeremy [Griffith], was I actually saw my own internal struggle with God. It really made me understand that battle between instinct and intellect. And plus, being in health and wellness business, I study a lot of the brain and neurochemicals, and wellness, so I’m fascinated with brain science, and just the health and longevity of the body as well as the brain. And so I was actually studying something on the brain when I came across on YouTube the advertisement for the transformation, and basically the advertisement said, a solution to the human condition, which immediately caught me because I always talk about the human condition and I always talk about a lot of people struggling. I’ve listened to and read a lot of stuff, and researched a lot of stuff, but somebody claiming that they have the actual solution for the human condition? And I was like, I got to listen to this. And I tell you what, when I saw THE Interview and the stuff he [Jeremy] was saying and I think I was already kind of coming to certain conclusions. And the way he put it and the way this was presented, and the science that was presented, a light bulb just went off, instantly went off. I was like, ‘Oh, wow.’ I was like, ‘I think that’s the answer. That’s the absolute answer.’ And so ever since I’ve just been fascinated by it, and been almost non-stop listening to the videos. And I listened to the audio book of the smaller book, Transform Your Life [And Save the World] [the condensation of Jeremy’s definitive book, FREEDOM: The End Of The Human Condition], and listening to interviews and everything, and really trying to get into the nitty gritty and trying to process it even more, trying to get to his science on everything.

So it’s been an awesome journey to actually dive into this, and the more I’m diving into it, I’m just having more light bulbs come on. I have some questions, but then whenever I listen to something else or read something else, it’s kind of like, okay, that fits and I think I can answer that question through what he’s talking about. I’m still going; I’m onto the Death By Dogma book. I’m halfway through it, and I am absolutely intrigued by how he pieces it all together. I’m blown away by it.

And in turn, understanding Buddhism, studying Buddhism, practicing even meditation, what I also found unbelievably fascinating is the enlightenment of Buddha, being able to meditate and basically shut off the mind. And I kind of related to the brilliance of Buddha—he was like the first psychologist, in my opinion, just because he was able to recognise the craziness of the mind and how we just need to quieten it down, and basically centre it. I’m oversimplifying it. But after listening to this, it’s almost like that quietness of the mind, and the quietness of the mind that I like, was almost quietening that struggle that Jeremy describes. So it is that struggle that plays, I think, in the back of an individual’s head, whether you know it or not, in the subconscious portion of the brain that just kind of lingers there, that ‘elephant in the room’ as he calls it. And even in the practice of meditation, I realised that meditation actually just quiets that conflict, and so you’re able to function a little bit better, a little bit easier, [but] it keeps coming back, so you have to meditate more to quiet that conflict. When I heard Jeremy’s explanation, and read this, I thought ‘Oh, my God, that’s the actual source of all that noise in your brain.’ And in actually knowing that that’s the source and understanding that, once I heard that, I felt, wow, that’s the source of the commotion. And that’s how I described it in [my] Facebook posts [the World Transformation Facebook community group], an almost an instantaneous sense of peace, because it’s like whenever you know the diagnosis of something, and you know where it’s coming from, you can better pinpoint how to shut it off. I think the only way I can explain it is it kind of ‘shut that off’, almost instantaneously, almost instantly. Because I understood it, I understood the source.

Tony: There you go, right there, that’s it. When did you start looking at it all?

Robert: A few days ago.

Tony: Oh right! Well there you go.

Robert: It’s been that quick. And already the stuff that, that’s why I’m a little bit obsessed about it, because it initially answered so many questions. It initially gave me an instant sense of peace. And that’s what triggered it, was instantly hearing this, I instantly felt at peace. And I was like, ‘Whoa, what was that?’ And then I kept going into it, I could start understanding religion. Brain science. Religion made sense. History made sense. You know, the history of religion; all the different religions made sense. Philosophy started making sense. My wife made more sense! I mean, everything started making more sense. And so the more I just keep diving into this — and it’s like you said, I’m really new at this and I’m kind of fresh at this — but the more I’m getting into it, I can see the applications through everything, through everything. Like you said, politically. Just on an unbelievable scale — just understanding how it applies to just everybody, understanding everything, you can be a little bit more, for lack of a better term, more intellectual about everything. You just see everything as it is. This is what happened, and like you said, there’s not even any emotion about it [the human condition]; you’re not angry at anybody about it, you know? Nobody’s bad. It’s just, wow, this is what’s going on with everybody.

This understanding actually gives you more compassion towards people because you realise that they’re just they’re battling. They’re struggling, you know what I mean, because they don’t know — ‘what the heck?’ — why they’re even doing what they’re doing, because they don’t understand this. And you’re just constantly searching for something to relieve that conflict — but you’ve got to understand the conflict. Where’s the conflict coming from? And that’s why this is so amazing, because that’s the conflict.

[Jeremy’s] Adam Stork story is the one that really just nailed me [the Adam Stork story is explained in THE Interview and Video/Freedom Essay 3. That was the light bulb that went off. That was the ‘Oh, wow!’ instantaneous sense of peace. I was even obsessed with the Adam and Eve story for a while; understanding that resolution or that reconciliation…I never could understand that. I just couldn’t understand that story. And I read the Kabbalah view of it. And the Christian view of it, multiple Christian views of it, thousands of preachers’ views on it, thousands of discussions on it. Because I’ve always said Adam and Eve is where this was all started, all the answers are in Adam and Eve; this whole religious answer and God answer and man’s reconciliation with God, it’s all in Adam and Eve. So I studied it in and out, in and out, all interpretations of it. And as soon as I saw that Adam Stork story, I was like ‘Oh my God!’ There it is! There’s the story! That’s the story right there. I just was blown away by it. I’m still blown away, totally blown away by just that one visual. That one visual right there just really, really speaks volumes.

When I listen to this, it is just an instantaneous…almost like I feel fulfilled. Like I said, I think my first comment that I made on the actual WTM website itself, the first comment I made is that I felt like a boulder was lifted off my shoulders. And that’s what I felt like. I felt like all this noise in my head, and that this weight, was gone. And now I feel better. Like, I feel just better about even this existence, you know? It’s just really, wild! It’s really wild! That’s why I said I’ve got to keep reading more.

Just again, what’s fascinating about this is, in terms of speaking in spiritual terms of enlightenment, us kind of spiritual people that have my spiritual ‘click’ that I kind of talk to, the only way to world of enlightenment is through self-enlightenment. So there is no kind of convincing anybody of anything else; they have to understand truth and have to get to their own enlightenment. And when everybody reaches their own enlightenment, everybody lives in an enlightened state and everybody’s happy. And that’s what’s fascinating about this as well, this truth, understanding the truth of our human journey is that; that’s what it is. That’s truth. That is truth. And it’s the same thing if everybody understands that truth, understands the truth of humanity and how we evolve and everything, it really seems like everything will naturally fall into place. And like you said, less suffering, because we just would exist in a world that’s innately good.

Tony: Did you see that Adam Stork story in THE Interview? That was your first experience of it?

Robert: Yeah. THE Interview. And then as soon as I saw the Adam Stork story, as soon as he started talking about the Adam Stork story, that got me. Yeah, that one just was like, instantaneously. Yes, because like I said, because of my obsession with Adam and Eve and understanding that; trying to understand that reconciliation with God, you know. I knew there was a story there about reconciling with God, and I was trying to figure out, how do you get past that point? And I couldn’t figure it out, that’s why I studied it so much, because there’s a state of being we were in—and I listened to a rabbi, a good couple of rabbis on the on the study of Adam and Eve through the Kabbalah — and I talk about that. It’s a self - awareness, you know, it’s a state of self-awareness. But nobody explained it like this, like Jeremy. And I get that. Okay; self-awareness. What do you do with that? You know. Okay, so we did become self-aware. What is that? It’s still presented as something bad, you know, like it’s bad, like this is a bad thing. And so you innately always think that you’re bad. ‘Developing consciousness was bad’, and ‘This was bad.’ And, so how do we get to that perfect state again? It’s virtually impossible. But, maybe there’s another way. Maybe there’s another way there? So there’s another way to get there through meditation, through these practices or whatever. So whenever I hear that story, it was just like, no, they’re [Adam and Eve] the heroes. It almost sounds blasphemy at first, if you’re a religious person. But you’re like, ‘No, wait a second!’ Yeah. That’s it. That’s it. Like I said, that was it. And that blew me way. Blew me away!

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Robert’s Dunlevy’s second conversation with Tony Miall, three months later

Robert: So when I revisited our first conversation, one of my big things I kept talking about was that I really had to get into this to understand why I got such a relief and why it instantly gave me such an amazing sense of peace. And I really had to dig down in there, and ask ‘Man, how did that do that? Why did that give me that feeling?’

And jump forward a few months now and looking into even more and realizing that that big story of humankind, of our evolution of humankind actually, the Adam Stork story is what nailed me, hit me hard, and it really evolved and really put together the whole story of humanity. And that gave me an instant sense of peace. But it was at such a deep level and I wanted to understand ‘Why did I want to feel that way?’ And then I realised that the whole story of humanity itself that Jeremy really talks about, we all [live] in our own lives, and you brought it out wonderfully in this conversation, that ‘Right when we come out from the womb, we’re thinking we’re going to be loved and everything, and then all of a sudden we get all this contradiction thrown at us.’; ‘You have to do this’ and ‘This isn’t good’ and ‘You’re not good unless you do this.’ And you’re starting to get judged right off the bat. And that’s what struck me, this whole big story of humankind. I really was able to place that into my individual life and really replay my life from my childhood to adulthood and really see it play out. And what I struggled through, and actually then play out what my parents actually struggled through in raising me, and implanting certain thoughts and contradictions in my head, and loving them for it because they don’t know any better. They’re struggling and they’re just figuring life out and they raised kids just based off of what they know. And then here I really got to see my life play out and then even my role as a parent, I even saw that play out, in this light, in Jeremy’s light and understanding. Seeing that is so individually healing; it’s so individually healing. And then understanding and seeing how this plays out in all of humanity as well, and our evolution is also amazing. It plays out in our individual lives, and it plays out in in humanity’s life and humanity’s journey. Yeah, that’s just fascinating. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. And it is so healing. That’s why every time I comment on Facebook, I’m saying this will heal humanity, because it heals you as an individual. It heals you as an individual.

And again, that’s why I get caught up with Integrative Meaning [see chapter 4 of FREEDOM or F. Essay 23], and even Jeremy brings up the story of Buddha — how Buddha talks about ‘in the future everybody will be a Buddha because everybody will have this enlightenment and when everybody has that enlightenment, then the whole world will be enlightened’. And that’s what this does. It self-heals you, so you go through this self-enlightenment; you just go through your whole own personal journey in life, and you see it from a totally different view and it heals you. That’s the enlightenment. That’s the enlightenment. Jeremy’s work and you playing that into your life and seeing how that plays out, is the enlightenment. And that’s fascinating.

There’s so many people that are searching for that. You brought up Eckhart Tolle last time, you mentioned him. And yeah, these guys, they have these books and these big followings, and I loved reading them and listening to them and getting some good information from them. But what is it? What is that enlightenment? They only take you so far and it’s actually an unrealistic state. It’s really an unrealistic state. You can’t just shut off your brain and shut off who you are. You’re a human being. You can’t just shut that off, and live, in this life, as they expect. And that’s why like Jeremy explains it; this enlightenment they think is there, it’s not there. That’s not the enlightenment. This is the enlightenment, Jeremy’s work is the enlightenment of really connecting with who you are as a human being. Really embrace that, embrace who you are as a human being and understand that consciousness and how we developed and that conflict. When you understand that, that’s the enlightenment.

I told you the funniest response was from my wife after a while of getting into this. She was the one who made the comment, ‘You’re really different!’ I was like, ‘Yeah, I just feel different.’ And then another couple of weeks went by, and this was funny, and I was talking to her and I said, ‘Boy, since I discovered this there’s a lot of good things happening around me!’ I said, ‘Just everywhere, a lot of good things happening!’ And she laughed and she said, ‘Nothing around you has changed except for you! You just changed and now you see the good in everything!’ So I had to laugh! I had to laugh at that because you know, maybe that’s the case! That now I can see the good and see the positive. It doesn’t mean I don’t have some stress at work and everything, but it’s just so different the way you view everything. She notices that. It was always like a big joke that I intimidate everybody, because I have this little scowl on me all the time. And I’m kind of intimidating to some people and I’ll get a little grumpy and stuff. And it’s not there. It’s like it’s gone. It’s gone. It is. I don’t have to feel that way. I just don’t have to feel that way. It’s kind of comical. There’s no need for me to feel that way. It’s so funny. So funny, so great.

Just here in America getting bombarded by the news and what’s happening in this liberal, woke culture that’s happening over here. It’s tough, it’s tough. Especially now that I see, my eyes are even open more with Jeremy’s work and understanding the Left [see Death By Dogma]. Boy, what a battle we have over here. The mass chaos and confusion of the whole family unit; they’re letting their kids — and the parents are pushing this — just decide their own sex, their own gender. Jeremy talks about resigning [see chapter 2:2 of FREEDOM or F. Essay 30 on the psychological process of ‘Resignation’ adolescents experience]…I mean, these kids are just going to be so lost. So it gets a little rough over here, and that’s why I love this Movement. And that’s why I love the Facebook Group and I love these conversations because it gives you hope again, knowing that this work is a must! And if there’s any way that I could play out the rest of my life — I didn’t expect to get emotional, sorry, Tony. I really didn’t. This is out of the blue. This is out of the blue here! But if there’s anything I want to dedicate the rest of my life to, it would be that more people have to understand this, because we have to raise another generation. We have to raise the next generation understanding this, so that they don’t have to go through what we went through. They don’t have to sit there and question themselves: why? They don’t have to sit there and ask why, throughout their whole lives while they’re trying to just go to school, while they’re trying to figure out what they want to do with their lives, and still have this whole why, why, why in the back and they can get rid of the why right from the get go and just be free from the get go to be like, ‘I know why.’ I know why everybody acts this way. I know why the world is this way and it’s okay. And now I can navigate this this life a little bit better. And then they can choose a mate that understands this information, and then they can raise their children to know this.